506th Aid Station Archive
The 506th Airborne Infantry Regiment
(Airmobile - Air Assault)
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I just read this article on PTSD and needless to say I am angry beyond imagination.
In the writers first paragraph talking about how it was in WW I, he is insinuating that
PTSD patients are cowards. I did my tour of duty as a infantry recon grunt. I stood in
front of two battalion formations with the battalion commander requesting volunteer
replacements for recon in the 2/506 and 3/506. Not one seasoned grunt volunteered out of
1200 + men. I suffer from PTSD and I can assure you because I do - I am no coward. I resent
this article that you posted on this web. Other PTSD patients should not have to read this
erroneous opinion. You all are talking fighting words now! I am really upset over this
article because I'll fight anybody! I really don't care if you are a doctor because this
world is full of educated morons and I think your one of them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From a Currahee.
I am not surprised that you are angry at the article. I was more than that when I read it. I
then went to the original article posted in the newspaper and got permission to directly quote
it, without comment on our web site. If you read carefully though, I did request that anyone
really interested in MY comments on it to write me and I would gladly comment on them. I will
assume that this letter to me falls within that arena so I have returned this and your post to
me with my comments on it in red (hope the red does show up on your computer.) I was not able
to do this (add my comments) on the web site for many reasons including not being able obtain
permission to have it posted., but have had many ask about the article, which I found more than offensive, and inaccurate, but even more disturbing since it is being quoted by others in the healing professions as a reasonable article stating scientific knowledge when it does nothing of the sort.
This opinions is out there, and does exist, ask some of your comrades with PTSD who have had to face hostile boards who believe this stuff. The world reads these articles,(many assume them to be scientific, factual and accurate) and PTSD patients not only have to read this, but are held hostage by many others (professionals) who have a problem with the diagnosis. This opinion is not the one held by the majority of the medical profession, but enough of those with influence to be a problem. (look at who they quote: "experts", in the field, psychologists who specialize in the practice, etc. ) The opinion does exist, and I stand by posting it even though I disagree with its content and conclusions. I feel that (and so did the editorial members of the Currahee web site) that being armed with this information would be more helpful to troopers who had to face this type of opinion, and they could also reference the more than 15 books I had posted before, that would thoroughly refute that opinion. Knowing who the enemy is, and their perceived strengths and weaknesses is better than remaining uninformed about situations that are hostile to you.
Sorry if you consider me one of the educated morons, but it has always been my thought
and statement that anyone who has been through a combat situation and survived, is entitled to
what ever opinion he wishes to have.
Doc. Lovy <email@example.com>
USA - Wednesday, March 19, 2003 at 07:04:00 (EST)
I was given permission to repost this at our sites. It can certainly trigger thoughts and feelings about the topic and I hope generate some useful comments. If anyone is interested in mh personal comments please e-mail me and I will reply with my own particular spin. I have added my comments in red and sent this to those who have asked for clarification or my opinion. I've added it here so everyone can see my remarks not just those who request them by e-mail.
The great PTSD debate
By DOUG BEAZLEY, EDMONTON SUN
We used to shoot people in this country for being scared. During the First World War, any soldier unwilling (or unable) to throw himself out of a trench in front of a German fusillade could find himself ventilated by his own people. How true.
That was then. These days, we're a lot more sophisticated when it comes to diagnosing cases of trauma-induced stress. Post-traumatic stress disorder, once an ailment associated with wigged-out Vietnam vets, has become democratic. Anyone can get PTSD now - construction workers, commuters, housewives, railway engineers, children. Yes, anyone can get
it. anyone can get appendicitis too, circumstances being right. If it
were discovered however in 12 year old children first, it would not be
all that unusual for the first articles on it to limit to 12 year old
children and their vulnerability to this new disease, etc. and then Darn,
"everyone else" is jumping on the band wagon with similar symptoms. Gee,
I hope we get more sophisticated as time goes on.
Right now, the case of ex-soldier Christian McEachern - on trial for driving an SUV through an office wall at the Edmonton Garrison - is turning on whether he was in a "dissociative state" at the time, caused by the PTSD he picked up during a particularly rough tour of duty in Uganda. This is a legal defense, not a psychiatric principle. Bad things
happen to people, and they have consequences of those bad things. They
may or may not modulate or modify future thoughts and behavior, but the
defense lawyers, looking for "reasonable doubt" search for any potential
explanation that may cause a jury to question the rationale of what
happened and not have the person penalized because they were only the
"victim" themselves of their own demons. ON the other hand, prosecuting
attorneys have the opposite job, to discount any other possible
explanations besides malice as the motivator. The truth is out there, so
they say, but in a court of law, that is not always what you get, What
you get may be a compilation of the skills of each attorney presenting a
skewered view to a lay jury and then they will believe what they see as
the most credible, not what is the "truth"
But one West Coast clinical psychologist is asking a more basic question - whether PTSD, as psychologists and psychiatrists define it, actually exists. Regardless of the diagnosis, one facet of working with patients
is to test out each hypotheses without rejecting any of them Of course,
one must question each sign, each symptom, each diagnostic probability.
The question isn't whether this diagnosis exists, but whether it exists
in this particular patient. ANd yes, diagnoses are dropped when there is
either insufficient evidence to validate its existence. sometimes the
theory is faulty, but the symptom complex is real, for example the
diagnosis of hysteria. originally attributed to a "wandering uterus"
remains. The symptom complex can and does occur in males, but not as a
result of the uterus packing up and moving. (notice how one can mock a
concept and make it sound so ridiculous that one then has a tendency to
drop the entire concept not just those parts that do not stand up to
"There are a lot of people out there who may believe they're being followed or stalked by street gangs or have little green men living in their teeth," said Dr. Marilyn Bowman, a researcher with Simon Fraser University who's written extensively on PTSD. OK, non sequitor. yes,
there are many, there are some who claim it and know it is false, but do
so for other gains. Those who "really believe it sometimes fall into the
hands of therapists, and sometimes treatment and appropriate medications
help to subdue those thoughts and concepts, or to help the person live
and survive with them still intact. Not sure what contribution the
addition of that sentence has to the discussion of PTSD, diagnosis or
"Quite often, medication and counselling does help. I'm not convinced it's helpful to always look for a causal event in every case. You have to be careful that you're not actually creating a disorder."Psychiatry
residency, year one, first week material. As a matter of fact, first year
medical students. 4 years of Latin undergrad so one can read, the
sanction, "first do no harm" Your treatment should not be worse than the
disease, your treatment should increase the quality of the persons life
and your life study is to make that so, regardless of the specialty you
chose (family medicine is a specialty) Many times a disorder is created
in the treatment of another disorder, etc. etc.
Opinions like these tend to inspire howls of outrage in the psychiatric community, but Bowman comes by them honestly. I would hope he came by the
honestly, not dishonestly. He is questioning a diagnostic and treatment
hypothesis. Nice work. However, publishing it as not theory, but fact, is
a bit pushy, don't you think? There are others, just as conscientious and
dedicated who have been testing the opposite hypotheses, and have as much
credibility. That is why therapists and healers need to make a careful
diagnostic evaluation before starting o a treatment course based on false
data, etc. etc.
In her clinical work she counsels recent victims of severe trauma - car crashes, rapes. She said she was surprised to find that the number of her clients exhibiting PTSD symptoms was a lot lower than the book said it ought to be. Not unusual. Many come with a self diagnosis, that in the
hands of someone who specializes in a particular phenomena find other
more logical explanations. Unfortunately, the opposite also occurs. Like
they say, "if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" and
there are some experts who only see the world through their own
prejudices. The book contains guidelines, it is not the "bible" as was
mentioned, although sometimes it is treated as such by HMO's etc.
Medicine is a very complicated undertaking with multiple variants
operating at all times.
"The big U.S. studies say that about five per cent of men and 10% of women get PTSD at some point," she said. "My work found the percentage was much lower, well below five per cent." In my practice it is higher,
but then again, it is higher because people sometimes seek me out because
of my particular expertise in the area. And yes, not nearly all who come
to me with what they say are diagnostic features of PTSD actually have
PTSD entered the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders - the psychiatrist's "bible" - in 1980, in response to intense lobbying by Vietnam vets' groups. It was supposed to describe a state of heightened and prolonged anxiety caused by a traumatic event outside the realm of normal human experience - war, a plane crash, a terrorist attack. This is
a false statement. The DSM-IV TR is not a bible by any means, but a set
of guidelines and is treated as such by most competent therapists. There
are many symptom presentations of the same disease entity, and many
symptom complexes can be diagnostic of many different pathologies. The
DSM IV TR, is just the latest attempt at collating the data in a useable
form. No different than the ICD 9. When treated as a bible, the therapist
brain gets turned off. It was not intense lobbying by Vietnam Vets
groups, although they played a role. Too many other examples of codes put
into catalogues that hold the test of time, and others that do not. PTSD< but any and many other names has existed since written recorded history of trauma. Lets not throw out the baby with the wash. It should not be a political statement, but a diagnostic category.
But quite suddenly, everyone was getting in on the act. Yes, not unusual.
Find something, and then try to see if it works for many other things
that previously had no explanation. Then reject it when it does not work
for a particular application.
"Women's groups started lobbying for the definition to be loosened to cover more common events, like rapes," said Bowman. "The trauma professions kept pushing to expand the disorder. Eventually, the definition was broadened to the point where you don't actually have to experience a traumatic event directly." Yes, all groups that had members
of that group that sustained severe trauma did try and see if the new
description explained previously unexplained phenomena. Even now, there
are groups trying to say the PTSD of combat is a different entity than
PTSD of a single event, such as rape, robbery etc. Time will tell, lets
not make fun of a concept because we do not agree with its implications.
Lets wait and see what impact it has and what portions are useable
And, I find it not so incredible that individuals can and do react to
phenomena that they did not experience directly, but heard about etc.
9/11 was experienced only by those who died during it. Others witnessed
it from around the world, and a portion of those have strong memories of
the horror of it, have night mares about it, etc. etc. and SOME of them
will have PTSD. Others will not. and my witnessing a colleague die during
surgery of a disease I may have, MAY cause me pause before undergoing the
procedure myself. Did not experience anything, but the thoughts create
symptoms etc. Lets not deny the entire field of psychology and psychiatry
or even the possibility of unconscious conflict in our zeal to attack or
defend a position
In fact, just hearing about something bad happening can get you diagnosed with PTSD, as long as you show the symptoms. Yes it can, and then with
proper evaluation, the diagnosis is rejected or accepted. Everyone that
comes to my office with chest pain, thinking it was a heart attack did
not have a heart attack. Any doctor will do a diagnostic evaluation and
then determine that this was or wasn't. That is part and parcel of the
practice of medicine. The patient has signs and symptoms, problems and
issues, and it does make sense that, before we treat, we make a
diagnosis. FIrst year medical school concepts. And since the symptoms -
intrusive memories about the event, hypervigilance, avoidance of
experiences that bring back memories of the event - are completely
subjective, there's no way for a health professional to be sure you don't
have PTSD if you think you do. Very specious reasoning. You can't
objectify pain either so the patient does not have pain because he/she
says he/she has pain. The patient says he/she hears voices, but since you
can't objectify them, they really do not, etc. etc. These are not
"completely subjective" They are patients presentations of what they are
experiencing. The issues are a lot more complicated than presented.
So a great many people get diagnosed, and many of them use that doctor's note to launch lawsuits or make workers' compensation claims. The only difference between having PTSD and having some other anxiety disorder is that PTSD can be linked to a particular event, a distinction that makes lawsuits and compensation claims possible. Wow, what a quantum leap jump.
So the diagnosis only exists to support and sustain law suits? Anything
can make lawsuits possible, whether it be an inappropriate treatment, a
bad result of a good therapeutic approach, even a claim by a psychic that
powers were lost due to a lab test, one that in no way takes anything out
or puts anything in. PTSD is an anxiety disorder and linking to a
traumatic event is only one of the criteria. Lets make statements about
the phenomena that support or do not support it, not turn it into a
political issue, which unfortunately many issues become and in any
individual case, can be the sole rationale of the presentation.
"Many (health professionals) handle the diagnosis rather lightly," said Bowman. "I'm not sure that calling something 'PTSD' adds to anything other than the legal angle." Same comment as before. I have not found
that to be the case at all. There are legal angles to any diagnosis or
treatment. I think it is valid to call something what it presents, if
indeed it does meet that presentation. ANd yes, there are legal
implications of diagnosis and treatment, but this is putting the cart
before the horse. To deny a phenomena because of its political
implications reminds me of the scene in Planet of the Apes, where it
turns out the APe leaders knew of the existence of a culture other than
theirs but suppressed it because of political implications. Want a clear
issue. How about the earth being the center of the universe, and people
died for saying it wasn't so, when many leaders who knew it was so
continued to press on with the false belief because of political
So if the definition of PTSD is so sweeping, why doesn't everyone in this
anxious, post-9-11 world have it by now? Why doesn't everyone who eats
peanuts have appendicitis. after all in certain age groups, it is the
most common cause. This type of statement is pretty foolish. There are
individual difference, and I lecture for about 2 hours to just hit the
tip of the surface on how we are alike and how individual difference
however subtle can make all the difference in the word to how we end up
feeling about something. One of my medics, Mark Jones was once overheard
talking with others about blood and bleeders. Many find blood to be so
shocking and unacceptable, that they can develop nightmares at the
thought or site of it. His comment was that for him, it was a nuisance,
something he had to get rid of so he could find the source of the blood
and stop it. Perspective. Lots more.
So if the definition of PTSD is so sweeping, why doesn't everyone in this anxious, post-9-11 world have it by now?
"People have a range of coping mechanisms," said Bowman. "Intelligence is a factor - people who are able to perceive that the world can sometimes be random and horrible have a better time dealing with a traumatic event. Correct, there are multiple factors that lead to very different responses
to identical phenomena.
"Social supports like friends and family also make a difference. And a belief system helps. Studies have shown that people with deep religious or political convictions have been more resilient because they can link their suffering to a greater good."
We've all been told that our culture is getting more secular and rootless. If you've got no beliefs, no friends and no explanations when something bad happens to you, who's going to be surprised when your shrink is the first person you call? Interesting statement. What does
this have to do with the diagnosis of PTSD? So, if you have a plumbing
problem, it does sort of make sense to try and fix it yourself, If that
fails, probably a plumber would be a good second choice. And if you have
chest pain, many first reach for an ant acid, missing the heat attack,
others go to their doctor. So, if one is having recurrent nightmares, is
withdrawing from people, has flashback of horrible things, mostly
undescribable, having anxiety reactions at times they didn't before, That
person could go to their broker on the assumption that the problem is
economic, or even entertain the possibility of going to a professional
therapist or healer to try to make sense of what is happening, Doesn't
sound all that outrageous.
Doc. Lovy <firstname.lastname@example.org>
USA - Monday, December 16, 2002 at 17:44:00 (CST)
While with Bravo Co 3/506 in June of 68 I contracted Falciparum Malaria. I recently read on www.vietvet.org/malaria.htm that falciparum malaria gives symtons which can be confused with PTSD and that the malaria residuals can be treated ,reducing damage done by this malaria .
This web page says the study was done at the University Of Iowa on Viet Vets. I've not been able to find any other info on this. Do you have any knowledge of this study and the treatment of the malaria resudials ?
Les Outman <Les.Outman@dgs.ca.gov>
Rocklin, Ca USA - Monday, December 09, 2002 at 10:03:01 (CST)
View information provided by Doc Lovy to the above question concerning Falciparum Malaria and PTSD.
I just wanted to pay my respects for such brave men and thank you for helping me help a friend who was searching for your company symbol.
Arjen van Slingerlandt <email@example.com>
Gouda, S-HOL. Holland - Wednesday, November 27, 2002 at 13:48:46 (PST)
As a Currahee at Camp Greaves in the BAS there and current VA employee, I commend this site and and the efforts of all who put it together. I will continue to monitor this site in hopes of contributing any assistance I can to help fellow currhaees and all vets.
Paul Zahn (Ret)
PA-C,Battalion PA 1-506th
Camp Greaves Korea
Paul Zahn <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Manhattan, KS USA - Friday, October 18, 2002 at 20:16:02 (PDT)
The 2002 reunion of the 506 th is history now. I became even more keenly aware that although there were many units and many time frames, we all shared a common situation, being in Vietnam and doing our job. I was also stuck in some math. With three battalions, and many years, there must have been at least 15 other battalion surgeons. I am sure that they have stories to tell, incidents to remember and comments about their particular time with the 506 th that would be helpful to the rest of the troopers (probably also to come to closure on many issues that have been dormant since their tour). So, I am enlisting your help, If anyone has an
idea or thought, or name of their battalion surgeon, please pass it on. We will attempt to find them, invite them to participate in the activities of the unit at any level, but most importantly, to add to the medical site here and answer specific questions we may have of them regarding their tour. Thanks.
Doc Lovy <email@example.com>
USA - Monday, September 02, 2002 at 04:50:55 (PDT)
I served with D Co of 1/506 Dec 68 to Dec 69. In I Core we took a weekly anti-malaria pill along with a daily pill called dapsone. I have read that dapsone was originally used for leprosy and one of the side affects is male infertility. I had trouble conceiving children, eventually I was able to conceive one son and wonder if dapsone might be the cause.
Salvador L. Gonzalez <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Lynbrook, Long Island, NY USA - Monday, July 15, 2002 at 16:21:22 (PDT)
Dapsone was used for resistant strains of malaria. Effects are possible, but very minimal.
Infertility has been reported in males receiving Dapsone, but fertility was restored following
discontinuance of the drug. "has been reported" does not rule out that it had that effect on
a particular individual, but the likelihood is fairly slim. Male infertility is not listed as
one of the Adverse Effects (not as more frequent and not even as rare or very rare) of Dapsone,
so it would be very difficult to establish a positive link.
Doc Lovy - Friday, July 19, 2002 07:52 AM
I'm looking for resources for my older brother, a Vietnam vet who was shot and wounded in 1970. He's had chronic pain ever since and managed it for 30 years by being a workaholic and with alcohol, leading a pretty normal life.
Two years ago, he was laid off from a a senior managment position and it's been downhill ever since.
Recently, his daughter in the Navy shipped out to the mid-East and that's only made things worse.
I need to find medical/support resources around Atlanta GA for depression, pain managment and alcoholism.
Please reply to the email address if you have advice/referrals.
USA - Friday, June 21, 2002 at 10:59:21 (PDT)
Can't totally adress the situation since I am not fully familiar with
the resources in Atlanta. I do know that there are Veterans organizations
in the area and a Medical School there. My first run through would be to
contact the regional VA office there and find out what they have available.
I would also contact the local MOPH, (Military order of Purple Heart)
since they usually have good communication with resources to help their members.
Medical College of Georgia, in Augusta Georgia and the VAH in Augusta would
also be a resource and they may be able to tell you about contacts in the Atlanta area.
Atlanta has, through its medical school many pain Clinics, Check and see which ones are
recommended by the VA, if the VA itself does not have a pain clinic. Try the VA
information site further down on our website. Frequently VA Central office has a list
of approved and accredited clinics that can be accessed for Veterans in need of their services.
Good luck and don't give up.
Doc Lovy - Saturday, June 22, 2002 07:52 AM
Thanks so much for putting a Medic's page on this website..
The information I have read on here is so valuable..and has answered alot of the questions I have had. I admire the World War II Veterans and especially the Medics so much..
The men who served in World War II are some of the bravest and kindest men in the world...they have been so helpful with any questions I or my son have had. Special thanks to Bruce, Paul, Merle, Bill, Hermie, Don, Roger, Jake, Dick, Buck and so many others for the kindness you have shown to me and so many others..and thanks to all who have put up such a fantastic website..
Deborah Oliver Forrester (proud daughter of a World War II Veteran (Marshall Clayton Oliver, Medic)
God Bless all who have, or is now, serving our Country..
I would love to hear from any of the Medics of World War II
Deborah Oliver Forrester <email@example.com>
Flowery Branch, ga USA - Tuesday, June 18, 2002 at 04:58:03 (PDT)
We really appreciate your post and kind words. I hope that it will encourage other medics,
docs, etc. that served with the 506 th regardless of the era, to share their experiences
with us , their joys and sorrows, and especially their stories regarding their medical management issues while they were on active duty, as well as their issues upon discharge.
Doc Lovy - Saturday, June 22, 2002 07:42 AM
This is a wonderful idea, to include a Medic page, as I feel they so easily get overlooked!!!...What I would like to ask concerns (paratrooper) Medics in WWII, I know they 'volunteered', but how did they do basic paratrooper training as well as training to be a medic? As this would have taken twice as long?..Did they have specific 'medical colleges"?..I hope someone could come up an answer..
England - Saturday, June 08, 2002 at 07:56:26 (PDT)
Jane, I read your post. Of course it is appropriate in every way and we all appreciate your interest in Airborne as well as medics. I can't really answer for WWII, but I suspect it is the same as other eras. There may be medics that will reply from that era as a stimulus from your post.
During the Vietnam era and beyond, you could be in the military, undergo medic training, usually at Ft. Sam Houston, then be assigned a unit. If it were Airborne, then you underwent Airborne training same as every other Airborne soldier. Some did it the other way around. Became Airborne, got their jump wings, then made the decision, or it was made for them, to become medics, so they then underwent the training to become a medic.
I will contact Dave Rattee, who may be able to contact you and fill you in on his perspective.
With our particular unit, all the medics were Airborne qualified, and we had classes on the ship
en route to Vietnam, as well as courses during our training. During the Vietnam era, medics were intergral parts
of the units they were assigned to, and in addition to their heroics as medics who would go under fire to extract one of their comrades,
were also called upon at time to defend not only themselves, but their fellow troopers who now had become their patients. The history of the combat medic is rich in devotion,
dedication and competence, and there is no doubt that they are a mainstay in the saving of lives under the most harrowing of circumstances.
Doc Lovy - Saturday, June 08, 2002 10:42 AM
Served as a Combat Medic with B Co. 1/506th, Dec 67 to Dec 68. Hello to all you Medic's out there. Airborne!
Wolford Palmatory Jr <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Alexander City, AL USA - Tuesday, May 28, 2002 at 16:32:09 (PDT)
I served with c/326 Med Btln in 1971 and treated casualties from the 506th many times. I would like to hear from anyone that served during that period.
Danny E. Loveday <email@example.com>
Sevierville, Tn USA - Tuesday, April 23, 2002 at 16:45:09 (PDT)
Running the short tour I did. I got hit 17DEC68 just outside of Camp Evans. No medics?? sorry. They were with the LT. Anyway, I got dropped off at a MASH? unit at Quan Tri, and my gunner went to the hopsital ship. The big question! Anyone know the name of the MASH unit? They checked out of Quan Tri just before Xmas; and sent me to the 95th Evac in Da Nang? TIA
Jay Schrom <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Mpls, MN USA - Monday, April 08, 2002 at 08:33:53 (PDT)
A while back, the History Channel featured a series called Suicide Missions. One of the programs featured Combat Medics.(catalogue # AAE 42340). Definitely worth having.
Doc. Lovy <email@example.com>
USA - Monday, April 01, 2002 at 19:46:23 (PST)
Thanks for having the site. Innis F. Moy (medic) (operating room Technician). Served Proudly Nov68-Dec69 1st Bn /506 Medical Aid Station,Camp Evans. Also serve with A,C and D company (field Medic). Help build and served forward aid station at FSB Currahee during Apache Snow Operation. After complete tour, was transfer to 159th Dust Off,25th Infantry Div, Cu Chi.(2 more tours). ( In Memory of All Currahee Medics) who never made it home but are now soaring with the Eagles.
Innis F. Moy <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Seattle, Wa USA - Monday, April 01, 2002 at 18:26:44 (PST)
Bac Si, this is a long time coming! I will attest to the high quality of care Doc Lovy delivers; he took care of me on more than one occasion in the "NAM" and once when I was "down in the dumps" at a Currahee reunion. I am happy to know the man we all call Doc and very proud to call him my friend! Forever Airborne!
Mike Krawczyk C 3/506th 67-68 <email@example.com>
Valparaiso, IN USA - Monday, April 01, 2002 at 15:55:38 (PST)
Thanks for the new Medcial Support link. Hope to be reading more info on it.
Currahee/Conserve the fighting Strenght/Soldier Medic
1SG Us Army (Retired)
Cleo Torres < >
, USA - Monday, April 01, 2002 at 11:20:46 (PST)
Do not have a question. Just want to say I am happy to see this new section. Would love to hear from any of the guys I treated while a medic in the 2nd Bn. I think I served with all of the companies except Alpha from Dec 67- Oct 68. Then ended tour at Camp Eagle with the 101st Avn Bn Aid station. Proud to be a part of this special group. (our Association)JW
MSG John T. Walker <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Madison, Ms USA - Monday, April 01, 2002 at 10:06:23 (PST)
Why does Doc Lovy look so different in those 2 photos? Handsome in each, just different!
Mark E. McKeigue <MMcKeigue@aol.com>
Flossmoor, Il USA - Sunday, March 17, 2002 at 11:10:39 (PST)